Martin Varsavsky (1960) is success and charisma. Born in Buenos Aires, shaped in the United States, and settled in Madrid, this entrepreneur has created multiple significant companies in the global capitalist landscape, such as Jazztel and Eolia. Now, he has traveled to Israel amidst the war with two honest missions: to help, and to inform himself in order to inform others. In the lobby of the hotel where he is staying, on his first day here, we talked about various pressing issues.
Gabriel: How have these initial moments in Israel been? What feelings do you have?
Martin: It's the fifth time I've come to Israel, but the first time in such a difficult period for the country. Israel currently faces not only the war with Hamas but also had a challenging 2023. After the Holocaust disaster, it's a miracle that Israel exists as a country. Despite all its problems, it's doing remarkably well. Generally, its citizens live as well as or better than European citizens. However, it also has inherent problems.
This country was born without a constitution, leading to significant issues between the different powers—executive, judicial, and legislative. It has integration problems and groups like the Orthodox, who have more children but don't contribute to the economy or the defense of the country. And they are increasing. It has problems with its neighbors, conflicts among Jews, and between Arabs and Jews. Additionally, the Iranians, who are not Arabs but Shia, create existential conflicts for this country.
How can their economy function? How can they get along with their neighbors? How can they improve relations with Iran, Israel's major enemy supported by Russia and China? The geopolitical moment with the U.S. and Europe against Russia, China, and Iran, the war in Ukraine, collaboration with Ukraine... Clearly, we are in a fascinating time in human history, though also a dangerous and concerning moment.
What did you come to Israel for? What will you do in the coming days?
I'll be here for a week, and I came because, from Spain, I might be the Jew who is most outspoken about what's happening in Israel. I felt I needed to be better informed. It's very challenging to speak without a good understanding of what's going on. So, I'll meet with key people—President Isaac Herzog, opposition leader Yair Lapid, Benny Gantz, and all leaders across the Israeli political spectrum. I have various meetings to learn more and be better informed. Last night, I had dinner with Gigi Levy-Weiss, a venture capitalist and entrepreneur.
I'm doing it for myself and to communicate better about what's happening here. I'm an entrepreneur and create companies, so my assistance to Israel is not based on the military but on creating businesses. That's my specialty. And this country is famous for its ability to create businesses.
The key is how to make the civilian economy work during the war and how to ensure that Israel can have a civilian economy. Wars are won through civilian economies. The Israeli civilian economy includes two million Arab Israelis deeply involved in the economy, who have no interest in moving to the West Bank or Gaza and contribute to the Israeli economy. I'll also meet with Arab Israelis. My focus is on the civilian economy.
In Israel, we find a country with a strong capitalist industry but also the kibbutzim, a significant communal system. How compatible are both?
I believe that the most effective capitalism in the world is one combined with a welfare state. If the welfare state becomes too large, productive capacity is endangered. But if there is no welfare state, capitalism ends up benefiting very few people. The magic is in the combination of both.
The United States represents capitalism, but at the same time, people living in California or New York don't mind allocating half of what they earn to taxes. In Spain, I have a similar situation. I pay 47% of what I earn in taxes. In the end, for a country to do well, it has to go well for the majority or almost everyone.
However, if you have too much welfare state, that leads to laziness and the destruction of the capitalist system. This happened in Argentina. There, people get paid for doing nothing, and the country sinks into hyperinflation. One has to find a middle ground. Israel found it, but it's a very peculiar middle ground.
Israel also has many people who do nothing, the ultra-Orthodox Jews. The "noquis," as they say in Argentina. Some curious "noquis" because they dedicate themselves to religious matters. One could say that this is a job, but I believe that most people do not see it that way. Now, there's an effort to integrate these people. So, the concept of kibbutzim is very different from that of the ultra-Orthodox. Because the kibbutzim are units of collectivist work.
And the religious Jews do not produce exportable products or contribute to the economy. They only receive from the welfare state. It seems to me that Israel has achieved a lot of success because very few Israelis have enormous success. And those few are the ones driving the economy, especially the technology economy, which is where I am involved.
Let's talk about October 7th. How did you experience it in your home?
It was a shock. As always, Jews have different ideas. I had a dispute with the orthodox Jewish community in Madrid. Because it's called the Jewish Community of Madrid, but it's actually an orthodox community. And they rejected my wife and daughter as Jews.
So, I had a dispute with them and formed a new group called "Encuentro Judío" (Jewish Encounter). And we were quite divided. But when something like October 7th happens, all Jews come together. I don't know if the Jewish Community of Madrid is ready to accept my wife and her conservative conversion. It sounds incredible, but with the 15 million Jews in the world, there are still Jews who want to be fewer. It's a shame.
I have a more inclusive vision, similar to that of the State of Israel. Israel has the idea of return: if you have a Jewish father or mother, you can come to Israel. But for the Orthodox Jews, you must definitely have a Jewish mother. Something that is very restrictive and causes many problems in terms of the number of Jews there could be. When Hamas murders or when anti-Semites accuse us, they don't care if you have a Jewish father or mother.
October 7th created unity among all Jews. There was enormous interest in the survival of the Jews. Because anti-Semites emerged from everywhere. It was a shock for the Jews to see that in Harvard, in Columbia, where I studied, in the most adored places for Jews, people came out to say that Jews deserved it, that Hamas should violate women, kill babies.
Jews ended up in an absolute state of shock. And I would say that we all are now. Surprised by the anti-Semitism that sprouted all over the world after October 7th. A big exception is Argentina. I spent a lot of time there recently, where I bought land in Mendoza. I was in Mendoza and Buenos Aires with the people.
Now, Argentina is a paradise for Jews. First, because it has a president who wants to convert to Judaism, and no one there thinks it's a bad idea. And second, Argentina is almost the only place in the world where Jews who came from Europe in the 19th century never had any problems.
That's unusual. Jews in Israel, undoubtedly, had problems. In Europe, we were 10 million, and now we are maybe a million. There was a Holocaust. Many Jews emigrated due to anti-Semitism, the difficulty of being Jewish today in countries like France. And in Argentina, Orthodox Jews dress as such. Well, nobody cares.
The best thing that can happen to us is not for people to consider us very special. The best is not to be considered anything. That they neither love us nor hate us. That we represent nothing to them. That they say we are just like everyone else. That would help us a lot. And that's what happens in Argentina. There are Catholics, Evangelicals, and Jews. For the Argentine people, Jews are a kind of Christians who came before Jesus.
"The hope for the Middle East lies in Iranians rebelling against their government."
You wrote that, following October 7th, you became right-wing. What did you consider yourself before that date?
I lived in the United States for 20 years, and my political views are influenced by that experience. Also, by Spain. And also, by Argentina. But a lot from the United States. There, I was a member of the Democratic Party. I donated quite a bit of money. I attended the congress of the Bill Clinton Foundation and was a Democrat.
When I wrote that article in English, I said that I was no longer a Democrat. It's not that I'm now a Republican. I am independent. I left the Democratic Party because it seems to me that it has too many people who hate Jews.
Not the case with Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris is married to a Jew. But my feeling is that, previously, Jews relied on the left. The birth of Israel came from the left, from progressive sectors. But now, the progressive sectors are so against us that being left-wing and being Jewish has become a contradiction.
What would you say to Jews who still consider themselves left-wing or want to consider themselves as such? Is there a solution?
A Jew can be left-wing in Israel. But when Pedro Sánchez receives congratulations from Hamas, and the Israeli government denounces Sánchez, it is very difficult to collaborate with the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (PSOE). Because the PSOE has this idea of Zionism. They are totally confused. All Jews are Zionists.
Zionism is a concept of pride for Jews but has been manipulated by the Palestinians and the left. Zionism simply means that one is in favor of the existence of the State of Israel. Show me a Jew who is not in favor of its existence. The left says they like Jews but not Zionists. That's like saying I like mothers but not those with children. Who are the mothers without children?
Within Israel, which political stream or ideology do you align with?
It's complicated. Benjamin Netanyahu does not convince me. I support him because I think it's what needs to be done right now, but he has had too many years and has had corruption problems. Something between Benny Gantz and Yair Lapid is where I see myself.
Naftali Bennett, who was prime minister, comes from the world of technology, like me, and understands the creation of value. I am not an ideologue. In everything, I see pros and cons, and in some people, more pros than cons. I do not agree with the Orthodox or the ultra-Orthodox, nor with the far-left. I position myself in the center, with someone like Gantz.
Is there any left-wing politician in the world whose ideas you think are good?
I think many of them have very good ideas on other issues. But not with Judaism. It's complicated, but as I said, the best world is one where a welfare state is combined with fervent capitalism that works and encourages business creation. And it seems to me that progressives are now on the right.
When I see a woman like Isabel Díaz Ayuso and see how well Madrid is doing... Madrid is progressive. Madrid allows Cabify, Uber, new trends to work. But Barcelona, with the people it has, like Ada Colau and company, is regressive.
They want a world that no longer exists. They want a world that will never exist. In Barcelona, which was a gem, they are sinking it with totally wrong policies. So progress now is on the right. It's a paradox. If you want to be progressive, you have to be with Ayuso, not with Colau.
In Spain, Ayuso has many followers. But also many detractors who criticize her for things like her handling of the pandemic.
During the pandemic, they did the best they could. All major cities were hit very hard by the pandemic. I am a patient of the public health system in Madrid. I attend both the public and private health systems. In a rather serious medical issue I had, a heatstroke where I almost died, the treatment I received in the public health system was incredibly good.
Madrid's healthcare is very good. I think the left no longer knows how to attack Ayuso. Her management seems very good to me. It can always be better; as with everything in life, nothing is perfect. And I'm not a fanatic of anyone. But it seems to me that, all in all, it's quite good.
And I think Spain needs leadership more like that of the People's Party (PP) than that of the PSOE, which negotiates to govern with a bunch of people who don't even want Spain to exist. I think Spain is a great country and deserves something better.
Ayuso aims to lead the PP, and in that case, she would run for the presidency of Spain.
Now, Feijóo leads the PP, and Feijóo is the candidate. And that's fine with me. I voted for him. And Pablo Casado seems to be doing a very good job. So in Spain, I support the PP. And in Argentina, Javier Milei. Because he is a person who brings hope. He has a very peculiar character, but Argentina is a very peculiar country.
Milei's style would not work at all in other countries, but precisely he has captured the ethos of the Argentine. And he knows how to represent those symbols that Argentines like. Argentina is an original, different, curious country. And Milei brought a very new system based on the free market, capitalism... In Argentina's case, it is good to shift to the right because there was already too much idleness.
I like to ask people what they think is the solution to the conflict between Israel and the Arab world. What is yours?
I see a solution, which is the same as Bill Clinton saw in his time, when I was on the board of his foundation. It is the two-state solution. Many Jews think it's impossible because "we will never be able to trust the Palestinians." And many Palestinians think that Jews must be exterminated, from the river to the sea. Those are the two extremes. Those who say "it's all Israel" and those who say "it's all Palestine."
But the truth is that there are already two states. Well, now three. There is Gaza, the West Bank, and Israel. In 2005, there was already a semi-solution of three states. The difference is that Israel did nothing in Gaza then, it was not in the Strip. In the West Bank, it is because it has all the settlements. It controls more of the West Bank than Gaza.
The problem now is that Israelis see that they did better with the West Bank than with Gaza. So Israelis feel they have to intervene. Because if they don't intervene, suddenly [Hamas] comes and kills 1,200 people. They take hostages. They rape women, kill babies. The example of Gaza was terrible for the independence of the Palestinian people. Because Israel experimented with Gaza. They left by force in 2005, and the experiment went horribly.
The two-state solution is more in danger now, as every time Israel tries to grant freedom and a state to the Palestinians, it ends up as it ended. However, I still believe that the only solution is the two-state solution. I hope it can be implemented. For that, some settlers will have to leave the West Bank, or there will never be a state. It would be like a colonized state.
I am against the settler movement because I think peace cannot be reached with it, and this country needs peace. Peace will be achieved the day the Palestinians have their country and the Israelis have theirs. However, the Palestinians' country should be something similar to the United Arab Emirates or Dubai. Not like Gaza.
Yes, it has all the potential... Will this conflict be resolved? How does an entrepreneur like you foresee the war?
There are two problems here. One is the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, but another very serious one is Iran. Iran, in my opinion, is the genius of evil. They are very good at being bad and have managed to obtain enormous power in the region. They control Syria, Iraq, half of Yemen, in addition to their own country, against a population that hates them. The Iranian population hates that government. It's incredible that they remain in power, mistreating women and homosexuals.
The world's hope regarding the Iranian government is placed in the Iranians themselves. That they rebel against their own government. If that were to happen, it would be incredible for the entire Middle East. Iranians are very capable people. If Iran moves toward democracy, it would be the most incredible change for humanity. There is hope in supporting the Iranian resistance to rebel against the government.
On a personal level, what are your resolutions for 2024?
I am here, and I want to help in any way I can. But my life is really the life of an entrepreneur. In my work, we have managed to help 150,000 families in North America have babies. I am in the world of fertility: my main job is to help families have babies. That's what I do, and what I want to keep doing. Because without babies, we have no humanity or future.
We're in good hands, right? Will the population grow?
At least we will do our best.
留言